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* [PATCH] ARM: Multi PBL: Fix image calculation for certain toolchains
@ 2018-09-17  7:29 Sascha Hauer
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Sascha Hauer @ 2018-09-17  7:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Barebox List; +Cc: perachet7

The current way to calculate the compressed image position works
with the OSELAS toolchains, but not with the Debian/Ubuntu toolchains.
For these toolchains &image_end_marker already returns the correct
address, adding global_variable_offset() to it is wrong.

The solution seems to be to put the image_end_marker into a different
object file so that the compiler cannot play any tricks to resolve
the address internally in the object file.

Signed-off-by: Sascha Hauer <s.hauer@pengutronix.de>
---
 arch/arm/cpu/sections.c         | 2 ++
 arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c       | 5 +----
 arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h | 2 ++
 arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S          | 2 +-
 4 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)

diff --git a/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c b/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
index 5874da2b82..ab08ebf42e 100644
--- a/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
+++ b/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
 #include <asm/sections.h>
+#include <linux/types.h>
 
 char __rel_dyn_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__rel_dyn_start")));
 char __rel_dyn_end[0] __attribute__((section(".__rel_dyn_end")));
@@ -9,3 +10,4 @@ char __bss_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__bss_start")));
 char __bss_stop[0] __attribute__((section(".__bss_stop")));
 char __image_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__image_start")));
 char __image_end[0] __attribute__((section(".__image_end")));
+uint32_t __image_end_marker[1] __attribute__((section(".__image_end_marker"))) = { 0xdeadbeef };
diff --git a/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c b/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
index b07087e4cf..43b49b4212 100644
--- a/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
+++ b/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
@@ -36,9 +36,6 @@
 unsigned long free_mem_ptr;
 unsigned long free_mem_end_ptr;
 
-static int __attribute__((__section__(".image_end")))
-	image_end_marker = 0xdeadbeef;
-
 void __noreturn barebox_multi_pbl_start(unsigned long membase,
 		unsigned long memsize, void *boarddata)
 {
@@ -50,7 +47,7 @@ void __noreturn barebox_multi_pbl_start(unsigned long membase,
 	void *pg_start;
 	unsigned long pc = get_pc();
 
-	image_end = (void *)&image_end_marker + global_variable_offset();
+	image_end = (void *)__image_end_marker + global_variable_offset();
 
 	if (IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE)) {
 		/*
diff --git a/arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h b/arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h
index 6933c7032d..b4659256cc 100644
--- a/arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h
+++ b/arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h
@@ -3,6 +3,7 @@
 
 #ifndef __ASSEMBLY__
 #include <asm-generic/sections.h>
+#include <linux/types.h>
 
 extern char __rel_dyn_start[];
 extern char __rel_dyn_end[];
@@ -10,6 +11,7 @@ extern char __dynsym_start[];
 extern char __dynsym_end[];
 extern char __exceptions_start[];
 extern char __exceptions_stop[];
+extern uint32_t __image_end_marker[];
 
 #endif
 
diff --git a/arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S b/arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S
index 9df1800543..ddc65bbf45 100644
--- a/arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S
+++ b/arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S
@@ -92,7 +92,7 @@ SECTIONS
 	__piggydata_end = .;
 
 	. = ALIGN(4);
-	.image_end : { *(.image_end) }
+	.image_end : { *(.__image_end_marker) }
 	__image_end = .;
 
 	_barebox_image_size = __image_end - BASE;
-- 
2.19.0


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] ARM: Multi PBL: Fix image calculation for certain toolchains
  2018-09-17 15:30 ` perachet7
  2018-09-17 18:21   ` Панов Андрей
@ 2018-09-18  7:34   ` Roland Hieber
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Roland Hieber @ 2018-09-18  7:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: perachet7; +Cc: barebox

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 05:30:56PM +0200, perachet7@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello Sascha,
> 
> Thank you for this patch. Happy to test it here on rk3188 (radxa rock pro).
> 
> Using bb v2018.09.0. Applied your patches below. CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE is 
> fixed in menuconfig. Common config:
> 
> grep RELOCAT .config
> CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE=y
> CONFIG_RELOCATABLE=y
> 
> Built using this script:
> 
> export ARCH=arm
> #export CROSS_COMPILE=/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-
> export CROSS_COMPILE=/opt/OSELAS.Toolchain-2018.02.0/arm-v7m-eabi/gcc-7.3.1-
> newlib-2.5.0-binutils-2.30/bin/arm-v7m-eabi-

Not sure if this is intentional – you are using thre ARMv7-M toolchain
here but as far as I understand, your could use the ARMv7-A variant
(arm-v7a-linux-gnueabi/hf) for the rk3188.

 - Roland

-- 
Roland Hieber                     | r.hieber@pengutronix.de     |
Pengutronix e.K.                  | https://www.pengutronix.de/ |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim | Phone: +49-5121-206917-5086 |
Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686  | Fax:   +49-5121-206917-5555 |

_______________________________________________
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barebox@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/barebox

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] ARM: Multi PBL: Fix image calculation for certain toolchains
  2018-09-17 15:30 ` perachet7
@ 2018-09-17 18:21   ` Панов Андрей
  2018-09-18  7:34   ` Roland Hieber
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Панов Андрей @ 2018-09-17 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: perachet7, Sascha Hauer; +Cc: barebox

Hi!

Thanks, with this patch barebox boots on rk3188.
I've tested with two cards, on one environment can be saved, on other this is not always work.

And newer kernels (above circa 4.10) will not boot with barebox because of clk driver change in Linux kernel.
Looks like It wants DRAM clock change routine that is present in current u-boot, but not in barebox.

mount failure can be fixed by this patch:
diff --git a/arch/arm/boards/radxa-rock/env/boot/mshc1 b/arch/arm/boards/radxa-rock/env/boot/mshc1
index 7393c4e63..df1beb11a 100644
--- a/arch/arm/boards/radxa-rock/env/boot/mshc1
+++ b/arch/arm/boards/radxa-rock/env/boot/mshc1
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #!/bin/sh
 
-mount /dev/mshc1.0
+mount /dev/mshc1.0 /mnt/mshc1.0
 
 global.bootm.boot_atag=true
 oftree -l /mnt/mshc1.0/rk3188-radxarock.dtb

Or just by removal of "mount..." command.

Earlier mount command accepted only device parameter, now it need mountpoint too.

17.09.2018, 18:31, "perachet7@gmail.com" <perachet7@gmail.com>:
> Hello Sascha,
>
> Thank you for this patch. Happy to test it here on rk3188 (radxa rock pro).
>
> Using bb v2018.09.0. Applied your patches below. CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE is
> fixed in menuconfig. Common config:
>
> grep RELOCAT .config
> CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE=y
> CONFIG_RELOCATABLE=y
>
> Built using this script:
>
> export ARCH=arm
> #export CROSS_COMPILE=/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-
> export CROSS_COMPILE=/opt/OSELAS.Toolchain-2018.02.0/arm-v7m-eabi/gcc-7.3.1-
> newlib-2.5.0-binutils-2.30/bin/arm-v7m-eabi-
>
> rm .config
> make clean
> make ARCH=arm rk3188_defconfig && make -j 10
>
> /rk-makebootable FlashData barebox-flash-image rrboot.bin
> sudo dd if=rrboot.bin of=/dev/sdc bs=$((0x200)) seek=$((0x40))
>
> Using Debian/Ubuntu cross compiler:
> ###########################
>
> CROSS_COMPILE=/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-
>
> DDR Version 1.04 20140217
> In
> DDR3
> 300MHz
> Bus Width=32 Col=10 Bank=8 Row=15 CS=2 Die Bus-Width=16 Size=2048MB
> Memory OK
> OUT
>
> barebox 2018.09.0-dirty #43 Mon Sep 17 15:19:59 CEST 2018
>
> Board: Radxa Rock
> clk_register clk xin24m is already registered, skipping!
> arc-emac 10204000.ethernet: ARC EMAC detected with id: 0x7fd02
> mdio_bus: miibus0: probed
> dw_mmc 10214000.dwmmc: registered as 10214000.dwmmc
> mshc1: detected SD card version 1.0
> mshc1: registered mshc1
> netconsole: registered as netconsole-1
> i2c-gpio i2c-gpio0: using pins 58 (SDA) and 59 (SCL)
> malloc space: 0x9fefd660 -> 0xdfdfacbf (size 1023 MiB)
> gpio-leds.6: probe permanently deferred
> envfs: no envfs (magic mismatch) - envfs never written?
> running /env/bin/init...
>
> Hit any key to stop autoboot: 0
> booting 'mshc1'
> mount: No such file or directory
> ext4 ext40: EXT2 rev 1, inode_size 128, descriptor size 32
> mounted /dev/mshc1.0 on /mnt/mshc1.0
> setting root node failed: Device or resource busy
> oftree: Device or resource busy
>
> Loading ARM Linux zImage '/mnt/mshc1.0/zImage'
> commandline: console=ttyS2,115200 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait
> arch_number: 3066
>
> => bb boot success.
> => kernel boot failure.
>
> Using OSELAS:
> ##########
>
> export CROSS_COMPILE=/opt/OSELAS.Toolchain-2018.02.0/arm-v7m-eabi/gcc-7.3.1-
> newlib-2.5.0-binutils-2.30/bin/arm-v7m-eabi-
>
> DDR Version 1.04 20140217
> In
> DDR3
> 300MHz
> Bus Width=32 Col=10 Bank=8 Row=15 CS=2 Die Bus-Width=16 Size=2048MB
> Memory OK
> OUT
>
> barebox 2018.09.0-dirty #44 Mon Sep 17 15:22:34 CEST 2018
>
> Board: Radxa Rock
> clk_register clk xin24m is already registered, skipping!
> arc-emac 10204000.ethernet: ARC EMAC detected with id: 0x7fd02
> mdio_bus: miibus0: probed
> dw_mmc 10214000.dwmmc: registered as 10214000.dwmmc
> mshc1: detected SD card version 1.0
> mshc1: registered mshc1
> netconsole: registered as netconsole-1
> i2c-gpio i2c-gpio0: using pins 58 (SDA) and 59 (SCL)
> malloc space: 0x9fefd660 -> 0xdfdfacbf (size 1023 MiB)
> gpio-leds.6: probe permanently deferred
> envfs: no envfs (magic mismatch) - envfs never written?
> running /env/bin/init...
>
> Hit any key to stop autoboot: 1
> booting 'mshc1'
> mount: No such file or directory
> ext4 ext40: EXT2 rev 1, inode_size 128, descriptor size 32
> mounted /dev/mshc1.0 on /mnt/mshc1.0
> setting root node failed: Device or resource busy
> oftree: Device or resource busy
>
> Loading ARM Linux zImage '/mnt/mshc1.0/zImage'
> commandline: console=ttyS2,115200 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait
> arch_number: 3066
>
> => bb boot success.
> => kernel boot failure.
>
> There still are a couple of (possibly unrelated) issues, independent of the
> compiler used:
>
> 1) envfs: no envfs (magic mismatch) - envfs never written?
>
> 2) mount: No such file or directory
>
> 3) setting root node failed: Device or resource busy
>
> 4) oftree: Device or resource busy
>
> 5) arch_number: 3066 [note: boot failure]
>
> cheers
>
> On Montag, 17. September 2018 09:29:42 CEST you wrote:
>>  The current way to calculate the compressed image position works
>>  with the OSELAS toolchains, but not with the Debian/Ubuntu toolchains.
>>  For these toolchains &image_end_marker already returns the correct
>>  address, adding global_variable_offset() to it is wrong.
>>
>>  The solution seems to be to put the image_end_marker into a different
>>  object file so that the compiler cannot play any tricks to resolve
>>  the address internally in the object file.
>>
>>  Signed-off-by: Sascha Hauer <s.hauer@pengutronix.de>
>>  ---
>>  arch/arm/cpu/sections.c | 2 ++
>>  arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c | 5 +----
>>  arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h | 2 ++
>>  arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S | 2 +-
>>  4 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)
>>
>>  diff --git a/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c b/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
>>  index 5874da2b82..ab08ebf42e 100644
>>  --- a/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
>>  +++ b/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
>>  @@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
>>  #include <asm/sections.h>
>>  +#include <linux/types.h>
>>
>>  char __rel_dyn_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__rel_dyn_start")));
>>  char __rel_dyn_end[0] __attribute__((section(".__rel_dyn_end")));
>>  @@ -9,3 +10,4 @@ char __bss_start[0]
>>  __attribute__((section(".__bss_start"))); char __bss_stop[0]
>>  __attribute__((section(".__bss_stop")));
>>  char __image_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__image_start")));
>>  char __image_end[0] __attribute__((section(".__image_end")));
>>  +uint32_t __image_end_marker[1]
>>  __attribute__((section(".__image_end_marker"))) = { 0xdeadbeef }; diff
>>  --git a/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c b/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c index
>>  b07087e4cf..43b49b4212 100644
>>  --- a/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
>>  +++ b/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
>>  @@ -36,9 +36,6 @@
>>  unsigned long free_mem_ptr;
>>  unsigned long free_mem_end_ptr;
>>
>>  -static int __attribute__((__section__(".image_end")))
>>  - image_end_marker = 0xdeadbeef;
>>  -
>>  void __noreturn barebox_multi_pbl_start(unsigned long membase,
>>  unsigned long memsize, void *boarddata)
>>  {
>>  @@ -50,7 +47,7 @@ void __noreturn barebox_multi_pbl_start(unsigned long
>>  membase, void *pg_start;
>>  unsigned long pc = get_pc();
>>
>>  - image_end = (void *)&image_end_marker + global_variable_offset();
>>  + image_end = (void *)__image_end_marker + global_variable_offset();
>>
>>  if (IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE)) {
>>  /*
>
> _______________________________________________
> barebox mailing list
> barebox@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/barebox

-- 
 Андрей


_______________________________________________
barebox mailing list
barebox@lists.infradead.org
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] ARM: Multi PBL: Fix image calculation for certain toolchains
       [not found] <20180917072942.12445-1-s.hauer@think-future.de>
@ 2018-09-17 15:30 ` perachet7
  2018-09-17 18:21   ` Панов Андрей
  2018-09-18  7:34   ` Roland Hieber
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: perachet7 @ 2018-09-17 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Sascha Hauer; +Cc: barebox

Hello Sascha,

Thank you for this patch. Happy to test it here on rk3188 (radxa rock pro).

Using bb v2018.09.0. Applied your patches below. CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE is 
fixed in menuconfig. Common config:

grep RELOCAT .config
CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE=y
CONFIG_RELOCATABLE=y

Built using this script:

export ARCH=arm
#export CROSS_COMPILE=/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-
export CROSS_COMPILE=/opt/OSELAS.Toolchain-2018.02.0/arm-v7m-eabi/gcc-7.3.1-
newlib-2.5.0-binutils-2.30/bin/arm-v7m-eabi-

rm .config
make clean
make ARCH=arm rk3188_defconfig && make -j 10

/rk-makebootable FlashData barebox-flash-image rrboot.bin
sudo dd if=rrboot.bin of=/dev/sdc bs=$((0x200)) seek=$((0x40))


Using Debian/Ubuntu cross compiler:
###########################

CROSS_COMPILE=/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-

DDR Version 1.04 20140217
In
DDR3
300MHz
Bus Width=32 Col=10 Bank=8 Row=15 CS=2 Die Bus-Width=16 Size=2048MB
Memory OK
OUT


barebox 2018.09.0-dirty #43 Mon Sep 17 15:19:59 CEST 2018


Board: Radxa Rock
clk_register clk xin24m is already registered, skipping!
arc-emac 10204000.ethernet: ARC EMAC detected with id: 0x7fd02
mdio_bus: miibus0: probed
dw_mmc 10214000.dwmmc: registered as 10214000.dwmmc
mshc1: detected SD card version 1.0
mshc1: registered mshc1
netconsole: registered as netconsole-1
i2c-gpio i2c-gpio0: using pins 58 (SDA) and 59 (SCL)
malloc space: 0x9fefd660 -> 0xdfdfacbf (size 1023 MiB)
gpio-leds.6: probe permanently deferred
envfs: no envfs (magic mismatch) - envfs never written?
running /env/bin/init...

Hit any key to stop autoboot:    0
booting 'mshc1'
mount: No such file or directory
ext4 ext40: EXT2 rev 1, inode_size 128, descriptor size 32
mounted /dev/mshc1.0 on /mnt/mshc1.0
setting root node failed: Device or resource busy
oftree: Device or resource busy

Loading ARM Linux zImage '/mnt/mshc1.0/zImage'
commandline:  console=ttyS2,115200  root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait
arch_number: 3066


=> bb boot success.
=> kernel boot failure.


Using OSELAS:
##########

export CROSS_COMPILE=/opt/OSELAS.Toolchain-2018.02.0/arm-v7m-eabi/gcc-7.3.1-
newlib-2.5.0-binutils-2.30/bin/arm-v7m-eabi-

DDR Version 1.04 20140217
In
DDR3
300MHz
Bus Width=32 Col=10 Bank=8 Row=15 CS=2 Die Bus-Width=16 Size=2048MB
Memory OK
OUT


barebox 2018.09.0-dirty #44 Mon Sep 17 15:22:34 CEST 2018


Board: Radxa Rock
clk_register clk xin24m is already registered, skipping!
arc-emac 10204000.ethernet: ARC EMAC detected with id: 0x7fd02
mdio_bus: miibus0: probed
dw_mmc 10214000.dwmmc: registered as 10214000.dwmmc
mshc1: detected SD card version 1.0
mshc1: registered mshc1
netconsole: registered as netconsole-1
i2c-gpio i2c-gpio0: using pins 58 (SDA) and 59 (SCL)
malloc space: 0x9fefd660 -> 0xdfdfacbf (size 1023 MiB)
gpio-leds.6: probe permanently deferred
envfs: no envfs (magic mismatch) - envfs never written?
running /env/bin/init...

Hit any key to stop autoboot:    1
booting 'mshc1'
mount: No such file or directory
ext4 ext40: EXT2 rev 1, inode_size 128, descriptor size 32
mounted /dev/mshc1.0 on /mnt/mshc1.0
setting root node failed: Device or resource busy
oftree: Device or resource busy

Loading ARM Linux zImage '/mnt/mshc1.0/zImage'
commandline:  console=ttyS2,115200  root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait
arch_number: 3066


=> bb boot success.
=> kernel boot failure.



There still are a couple of (possibly unrelated) issues, independent of the 
compiler used:

1) envfs: no envfs (magic mismatch) - envfs never written?

2) mount: No such file or directory

3) setting root node failed: Device or resource busy

4) oftree: Device or resource busy

5) arch_number: 3066 [note: boot failure]



cheers

On Montag, 17. September 2018 09:29:42 CEST you wrote:
> The current way to calculate the compressed image position works
> with the OSELAS toolchains, but not with the Debian/Ubuntu toolchains.
> For these toolchains &image_end_marker already returns the correct
> address, adding global_variable_offset() to it is wrong.
>
> The solution seems to be to put the image_end_marker into a different
> object file so that the compiler cannot play any tricks to resolve
> the address internally in the object file.
>
> Signed-off-by: Sascha Hauer <s.hauer@pengutronix.de>
> ---
> arch/arm/cpu/sections.c         | 2 ++
> arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c       | 5 +----
> arch/arm/include/asm/sections.h | 2 ++
> arch/arm/lib/pbl.lds.S          | 2 +-
> 4 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c b/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
> index 5874da2b82..ab08ebf42e 100644
> --- a/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
> +++ b/arch/arm/cpu/sections.c
> @@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
> #include <asm/sections.h>
> +#include <linux/types.h>
>
> char __rel_dyn_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__rel_dyn_start")));
> char __rel_dyn_end[0] __attribute__((section(".__rel_dyn_end")));
> @@ -9,3 +10,4 @@ char __bss_start[0]
> __attribute__((section(".__bss_start"))); char __bss_stop[0]
> __attribute__((section(".__bss_stop")));
> char __image_start[0] __attribute__((section(".__image_start")));
> char __image_end[0] __attribute__((section(".__image_end")));
> +uint32_t __image_end_marker[1]
> __attribute__((section(".__image_end_marker"))) = { 0xdeadbeef }; diff
> --git a/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c b/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c index
> b07087e4cf..43b49b4212 100644
> --- a/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
> +++ b/arch/arm/cpu/uncompress.c
> @@ -36,9 +36,6 @@
> unsigned long free_mem_ptr;
> unsigned long free_mem_end_ptr;
>
> -static int __attribute__((__section__(".image_end")))
> -       image_end_marker = 0xdeadbeef;
> -
> void __noreturn barebox_multi_pbl_start(unsigned long membase,
> unsigned long memsize, void *boarddata)
> {
> @@ -50,7 +47,7 @@ void __noreturn barebox_multi_pbl_start(unsigned long
> membase, void *pg_start;
> unsigned long pc = get_pc();
>
> -       image_end = (void *)&image_end_marker + global_variable_offset();
> +       image_end = (void *)__image_end_marker + global_variable_offset();
>
> if (IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_PBL_RELOCATABLE)) {
> /*





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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2018-09-18  7:34 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2018-09-17  7:29 [PATCH] ARM: Multi PBL: Fix image calculation for certain toolchains Sascha Hauer
     [not found] <20180917072942.12445-1-s.hauer@think-future.de>
2018-09-17 15:30 ` perachet7
2018-09-17 18:21   ` Панов Андрей
2018-09-18  7:34   ` Roland Hieber

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